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[ST LINE] 《動力》Focus ST 350RS‧誕生!實車上路測試中
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   sulker

腳踏車魔人
文章 47
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新北市 新店區 
發表於 2007-11-22 08:33 AM 
這個不能算加大渦輪,它是拿原廠渦輪重新導角,拋光,重做平衡,算是升級版。
國內就有廠家做這樣的服務,如果價格不便宜,不如就在國內做就好了。

  有些車比較受改裝族歡迎不是沒有原因的,Impreza沒人做這樣的調整,因為它的渦輪太便宜,
原廠TD04全新一顆一萬,升級TD05全新一顆二萬,簡直秤斤在賣。


  BTW,馬力機要相同條件才有比較的意義,我曾在不同的馬力機拉過輪下差異40匹,該相信哪一個??


 
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   vetman

小50殺手
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新北市 汐止區 來自 台北
發表於 2007-11-22 09:05 AM 
原帖由 lenin 於 2007-11-22 12:41 AM 發表
剛剛小費打電話來,
說,我的車感覺低速加速比較軟,
中速度就差不多。

體質天生比較差,
只好吃補品。

劣寧大大您要不要去檢查一下您的正時角度???
加粗DP的確起步會更虛一點...
由於不知道這組加大渦輪進氣葉片的尺寸...但是就算是K24的葉片要作到350匹都有點難了!!!
受限ST的頭段跟排氣側連在一起...要換渦輪真是不容易...除非重新定製芭蕉...
不然以2521的排氣量用K04這種小小螺實在太浪費囉!!!!
反置引擎的好處芭蕉離渦輪非常的近...lag不會太嚴重...依小弟的經驗2.4L排氣量推GT30 .82AR大約4000轉就大出了....63AR只要3500轉就大出...幾乎感受不太到lag的存在...ST的排氣量更大應該會更早...


 
   kasman

重機
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臺南市 安南區 
發表於 2007-11-22 09:37 AM 
原帖由 sulker 於 2007-11-22 08:33 AM 發表
這個不能算加大渦輪,它是拿原廠渦輪重新導角,拋光,重做平衡,算是升級版。
國內就有廠家做這樣的服務,如果價格不便宜,不如就在國內做就好了。

  有些車比較受改裝族歡迎不是沒有原因的,Impreza沒人做 ...

連芭蕉也要跟著拋, 芭蕉連渦輪的壞處就是不能只針對渦輪作修改
我也想知道國內有哪些廠商可以做, 有相關資訊可以提供嗎? thanks


 
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   wasabi_rice

90cc菜籃族
文章 177
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發表於 2007-11-22 10:14 AM 
原帖由 vetman 於 2007-11-22 09 AM 發表

劣寧大大您要不要去檢查一下您的正時角度???
加粗DP的確起步會更虛一點...
由於不知道這組加大渦輪進氣葉片的尺寸...但是就算是K24的葉片要作到350匹都有點難了!!!
受限ST的頭段跟排氣側連在一起...要換渦 ...

Alright, I thought I should share my experience with you all since I help design the system.

The stock turbo included in the Focus ST along with the manifold is one piece cast equipment. Vetman is absolutely correct when he mentioned that even with the modified blade included the turbo would still have difficulty achieving 350hp giving the fact that manifold is left untouched. In this case, the crucial element is not just the turbo itself, but precision machining of port and polish involved throughout the whole one piece construction (turbo, and manifold). From the design point of view, stock manifold would give the optimum reliability and I am not doubting Taiwanese vendors's ability in port and polish process. However, it is very important to keep in mind that my version of 350RS turbo gone through multi-stage processes. Start off with specialized machine which would perform the first stage machine porting then it would be hand ported with experienced technician again. When it's all said and done it is then strap on to a flow bench to assure consistent result. That is not easy to reproduce by simply taking a porting tool and just give it a go. Precision is the key here. Sometimes this takes years of experiences. In the racing community I know some of the hand porting people charge over GBP150 per hour. It’s not as easy as some of you think. In the end of the day, some people are willing to dash out big $ for small amount of gain because they are close to the limit of the car for the racing they do. And that few hp may mean between winning or losing. But most of us are just average joe who take their car to work and do some weekend racing for fun and cost/Performance is the key issue here. I notice this is especially true for most of FSC members. I fully understand it but believe it or not, most of other brand owners are already jealous of us for C/P of virtually all mods on the ST. Ask any of the VW/AUDI guys… Now, it was my intention to develop a turbo system for those who are looking for the highest performance from the stock turbo housing / manifold and I believe Pumaspeed and myself pulled it off.  I am very aware of what GT30 can do for ST and in fact working on it right now. But the level of cost would scare off just about everyone here. I think for the whole complete transformation you are looking at from $400,000NT upward to $650,000.00NT. Solid flywheel, competition clutch, gas flowed head, forged pistons, con-rod, head gasket, fuel injector, fuel pump, proper size intercooler, downpipe, new spec exhaust, manifold are just names of few. The list goes on…

I hope these information can be some help. It took me almost 10 mins to type up.

Cheers

Howard

P.S - Seth Seth.. help me translate it pls... you are the best ! bro... lol


 
   seth7 (老牛+牛伯)

遊客
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發表於 2007-11-22 10:38 AM 
Way da go buddy. 10 minutes of worth...haha!  Just kidding. Very nice information. Ya should see some stupid guy in the UK forum is trying everything to against this turbo convertion!


嘻皮萬歲! 米露跟草萬萬歲!! 
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   wasabi_rice

90cc菜籃族
文章 177
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發表於 2007-11-22 10:43 AM 
原帖由 seth7 於 2007-11-22 10:38 AM 發表
Way da go buddy. 10 minutes of worth...haha!  Just kidding. Very nice information. Ya should see some stupid guy in the UK forum is trying everything to against this turbo convertion!

Are you talking about Phallett?? lol... that's Paul Hallett he is a good friend of mine. Actually he will be coming in Taiwan in Jan. too. I will introduce you to him. He is a really nice guy even though he sounds like a dick in the UK forum... but he is really not. He is involved in the project too.

Cheers


 
   seth7 (老牛+牛伯)

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發表於 2007-11-22 11:04 AM 
Haha...no wonder the project he brings out is so familiar to me.... I thought this guy is stealing someone's idea....my bad! I apologize.

以下幫浩翻譯:

好吧, 讓我分享我協助開發這顆渦輪的經驗!

ST的原廠渦輪跟芭蕉都是一體鑄造, Vetman指出對於若只改葉片而不修芭蕉的話要達到350匹是不大可能的說法是完全對的, 在這次的改造, 重點的地方就是用精準的機器將渦輪跟芭蕉做拋光.

從設計角度來看, 原廠芭蕉是考量提供有效率但又要耐用的均衡, 而我也相信台灣的某些改裝廠有能力將原廠芭蕉拋光. 但是, 請要注意的地方是我這次是採用多層次的拋光. 一開始是用特殊機器來做第一次的拋光, 然後讓非常有經驗的師傅再用手工做第二次的拋光, 當完成後再用氣流測試來確定它的光滑. 這樣的完整度不是只用個拋光工具就可做到的. 精確是主要的關鍵. 這是需要多年的經驗才能達到如此的要求. 據了解, 在賽車界有經驗的師傅拋光每小時收費150英鎊. 這不是如許多人想的那麼容易的. 終究, 為什麼有些人花大把鈔票,只為了讓他們已經極限的車在賽車場上能再多出一點點馬力, 而會贏會輸往往就是靠這多出來的一點點馬力! 但是我們這裡大多數人不是要賽車, 只是平常開同樣的車上班, 休閒時好玩操一下, 因此改裝的C/P值一直是我們大家考量的重點, 我發現這對大多數FSC的車友而言是共通的事實, 我完全了解這點, 而且呢, 其他車種的車友也已開始妒嫉ST有許多C/P值高的改裝出來, 去問VW及AUDI的車友看看....

目前, 我的用意是把原廠這套渦輪發揮到最大效益, 我想我跟PumaSpeed已經達到了! 我現在已經在留意GT30這顆渦輪跟ST的搭配, 事實上我已經在動手了, 但是這樣動手所需的費用會令大家咂舌, 因為更大的動力, 所以要其他的搭配, 費用加起估計是40萬~65萬台幣! 以下略舉的搭配有Solid flywheel, competition clutch, gas flowed head, forged pistons, con-rod, head gasket, fuel injector, fuel pump, proper size intercooler, downpipe, new spec exhaust, manifold 等等...

希望以上資訊對大家有用,我可是花了10分鐘打字哦!


 
   Michael0825 (Michael)

遊客
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臺北市 松山區 來自 台北(ST-Line)
發表於 2007-11-22 01:57 PM 
感謝浩的分享和牛伯的翻譯...

剛開始看照片的確看不出個所以然, 因為只看到管口的拋光, 並無法看見芭蕉段內部的狀況...
若是要將芭蕉全部完整的拋光, 從常理來看就知道是一件困難的事..
而PUMASPEED有這樣的機具和技術, 能夠精密的控制拋光的厚度, 可說是需要高水準技術的 !
如果又再加上氣流的測試可得到可靠的驗證, 也更提升了產品的可信度...

另外想請教的是, 原廠芭蕉段的管壁厚也是有其耐用度的考量..
經過拋光管壁變薄後, 高溫對其是否有負面的影響 ?
不過誠如浩所說的, 這樣的作法是在成本考慮下最經濟的改裝方式了 !


 
   seth7 (老牛+牛伯)

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發表於 2007-11-22 02:12 PM 
問過浩了,拋光後管壁的厚度仍保持在安全耐用度內...... 在動這顆渦輪前就有從許多方面來考量,而不是隨便就這樣改下去!


 
   lenin (劣獰)

版主
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臺北市 內湖區 來自 ST-Line
發表於 2007-11-22 03:01 PM 
牛伯是我跟進的指標,
牛伯說OK的,
我就不用太擔心,
反正要挫賽,也是老牛先拉一沱出來。

浩的資訊與分析,
我相信都是經過他縝密地考慮過的,
很多問題,根本是我沒想到的事情。






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